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Darrick: Keith, I got Adam on the phone.
Adam: What’s up?
Kool Keith: Let’s do this.
OK. First question. What do you think about the beats that people are making today?
Repetitious. I think everybody is using the same standard sound. I think everybody is stuck for a moment. Like musically, you can’t branch out. You got no diversity. You got maybe one or two producers doing all the tracks in the music industry. It offers no diversity in the rap industry because everybody don’t have a sound anymore. Once again it goes back to history. Like Kool and the Gang had a sound, Cameo had a sound, Average White Band had a sound. So, nobody gets a sound. Everybody is getting produced by one producer.
Like the Neptunes and shit like that?
The Neptunes or they getting just Timberland to do all the tracks. With them they have their own sound. Missy Elliot and them have their own sound, but like back in the day everyone had a sound. EPMD had a sound, Ultramagnetic had a sound Public Enemy had a sound. Now you have no diversity because everybody is running to one or two producers.
Last time I interviewed you, you said you liked Young Bloods.
Yeah. Well, they have a sound. Like, the south has a sound right now. That’s why their hot right now.
I was listening to some of that stuff. It’s actually on my video game soundtracks. It all sound the same to me.
Well, they do have their own sound though.
Yeah, I guess.
I have a sound. That’s why with this new album, I am supposed to collaborate with Kurt. You know I want him to do everything with a sound. Even when I do my own stuff. Which, I will be doing a lot of my own. I got a few albums on the way out. All my stuff has always been my sound.
Word is you’re back with Ultramagnetic.
Yeah.
What’s going on with that?
We just taking our time doing some tracks we already started on maybe about five or six records, but once again we are perfecting our distinctive beats and our sound.
Is Tim Dog going to have anything to do with that?
Uh, Tim may have rhymed on a track. One track here and their.
What do you think about producers of today? You think they are all the same?
I think all the producers are just copying each other. I think everybody is scared to go a different route. Everybody is basically staying in a safe zone. I mean, the producers of today are good, but I am much better. That stuff that everyone is doing now, I was doing that stuff a decade ago. All the distinctive beats and the brand new sounds that everybody is trying to do. When I was doing it everybody wasn’t feeling it. Now everybody and their mother is trying to come out with a distinctive track. I patterned that whole layout. Way before everybody came out. Even before a lot of these guys that claim they were doing distinctive beats. All these producers out in the industry. I was the first doing those distinctive beats. When I first started with Black Elvis. Even before that, Dr. Dooom. All those albums had distinctive beats. I was the first guy doing that, but the industry covered their ears. They act they couldn’t hear. You listen to KHM. All those tracks was distinctive. Now the whole industry is trying to come out with a weird sound and start off the record bugged out. It’s funny. I laugh at all that though.
I think people might start copying the KHM sound. A new sound.
Yeah. Like I said, a decade later they just copy cause we are so ahead of our time. Plus those records are timeless. They make distinctive sounds, but these new producers they can’t do it consistently through a whole album. They’ll have like one or two distinctive records on their album, but the rest of the records are corny samples. They copy somebody else’s music or the use a loop here and their. They can’t keep up the consistency. Where, I was the guy on all my albums with consistency. I would do 16 brand new uncopied tracks, distinctive tracks on my albums. You even listen to Lost Masters, any thing, I would keep up 16 distinctive tracks. These guys are not consistent. They can only do one or three at the most.
Yeah. With most of your albums you can listen to the whole thing all the way through and not get sick of it. Like, Sex Style or Dooom.
Right, these guys can only two distinctive tracks that make you say wow those are different.
Then you skip the rest of the CD.
That’s because a lot of people are not musicians. A lot of people can’t make a real consistent amount of distinctive beats because that was never in them. They just jumping on a bandwagon. If you don’t have that in you, to come up and make distinctive beats like an art, like a guy who does it from scratch and makes them all the time, and you just say ok I’m gonna try to be a distinctive beat maker because that’s the trend. These guys try to make one or two beats because that’s the style, but when they can’t do it no more they’ll run back to sample. They’ll run back to a jazz loop or something, a jazz break. They’ll run back to copying something that Premier does.
Like Puff Daddy took Public Enemy #1 and redid it.
Yeah. Or they’ll rap over something from the ‘80s or that’s not current.
What do you think of the rappers of today compared to the rappers of yesterday? Cause, I still listen to the stuff from ’93 to ’97. I can’t listen to most of the new shit.
I say the 2nd generation of rap, which is myself. Like, that 2nd generation from Ultramagnetic, Eric B. and Rakim, BDP, Public…Well, Public Enemy was out before us. I’m saying, that second generation after Run DMC and stuff.
Like, when Yo MTV Raps was on the air.
Yeah. Those rappers have developed fan bases forever. All those groups can still do shows. You have like five generations of rap. No, have like six generations. You got the super first generation. Grandmaster Flash, Cold Crush Brothers, Herc, Bambaataa. Then you have the second generation. Which is the Whodini, the Run DMC, the LL Cool J.
The Fat Boys.
The Fat Boys. Then you have the third generation. Which is Rakim, Ultramagnetic, The Super Lover C, Stetsasonic, De La. All those groups can do shows with really strong fan bases. Then the fourth generation, like Das Efx, Redman. All those groups have developed fan bases. The fifth and sixth just don’t have no fan base. They have no experience in the rap game. They paid no dues. They don’t know how to do a show. They just all radio artists. Their underground wasn’t rugged. They have a mixtape thing. Where they are hot on the streets. They are not internationally underground. They are just hot in New York. Nobody in Utah knows who the fuck they are, nobody in Denver knows them, nobody in Portland knows them. The third generation is even big internationally. Even the fourth generation is big nationally. The new rap that is coming out now, they don’t have a fan base. They don’t even have a story to base themself on. Its like a novel, like a book. People can say, oh I like Stephen King. He mad the Clown, he made the movie with the tractor trailer that was killing everybody, he made Children of the Corn. People can’t get into those groups cause they don’t have a story, they don’t have a foundation. What happens is, you get AJ and Free try to talk on BET about oh you guys are very successful and how does it feel. How you going to talk to a fucking artist that came out for one year. Like James Brown was at the Kennedy Center Honors. I was so glad that he tore the industry a new asshole. He had Brian McKnight out there kissing his feet, playing his fucking music for them. People honoring him. People had to give it up. He was up there sitting in the balcony with President Bush. It just goes to show that white people had to give James Brown his props. You got all these awards. Like, BET, MTV, the Grammy’s, American Music Awards. They go out and give Britney Spears best pop performance. These people are not that good they are just for the time. Like, James Brown put in a lot of work. It was so big. It was so, black tie affair. That’s what it is. These new groups don’t have it. People look at a lot of the new singers, and they are not the Chaka Khans, Lela Hathaways, not your Tina Maries, Patti LaBelles.
Artists nowadays can just find a gimmick and stick with it. In 20 years you are not going to remember, like Justin Timberlake, but you are still going to remember James Brown.
Like all these female singers. These new female sensations are not even on the level. [silence]
You ready for the next question?
Yeah.
Do you think rappers are getting paid today like Missy and Outkast?
I think rap has lost a lot of its edge. Like, rap was a competitive sport like basketball. Rap was, who’s one of the top MC’s. Who can write lyrics. I think rap lost it. I think a lot of people used the art form to get into the game. To use rap as a stepping stone then taking it to a different route. I think Big Boi is a good guy for what he is doing. He keeps it more serious in the clothing range. I think Andre is working too hard for the label. I know what he is going through. I went through it with the label. I don’t think you have to do that much in rap to be accepted. You know the clothes and all that stuff. They pushed him to a certain level to feel that he has to be accepted. The pop audience accepted him because he’s more or less like a harmless person in the music industry. They accepted that look and that role. The day he becomes himself, become like a regular guy. Goes to the store and puts on a regular ball cap, they are not going to accept him. The pop audience wants to see him act more clownish. Rap has moved into like a clown faze. It’s not how good you are, its how silly you can act. That’s just, I think for the black rappers. I’m quite sure you laugh at that stuff.
Oh yeah. I saw Outkast on Saturday Night Live. Andre did one part and Big Boi did the other part. Big Boi was Ok, nut Andre had pads under his eyes and he was jumping around.
Really even, white America wants to see black rap. They took rap away from its essence. Rap was the projects, rap was timberland boots, rap was the chain. Rap was cultural. They took it from that level and clowned it out. Like, hey why don’t you dress up like Barney on your records? HA HA HA. Come out at the coliseum dress like the Purple Dragon. It will be tough. They are clowning it out. What kills me is when you look at alternative bands, like the Misfits and they want to be so distinctive and the best, but they got regular t-shirts on. Look at Moby. He’s a phenomenal guy, he claims right? The guy runs back and forth and plays different keyboards and different instruments and he just wears a white t-shirt and jeans. And he is supposed to be a phenomenon.
Moby?
Yeah, I heard so much about the guy. Then I actually seen the guy do a show and I was like, is this Moby, the guy that people are flipping about. A regular bald headed dude running around playing different keyboards wearing a Haynes t-shirt with a pair of jeans. And people were like, that’s an exceptional show. It goes back from the George Clinton thing. They did it for a minute and it made people feel like that was the only way to accept soul music. You have to put on a mask and come out the mothership. Why do we have to do that? You don’t see the Foo Fighters coming out the mothership.
Well, Rappers have a different audience to try to get than the Foo Fighters. The Foo Fighters can just come out and be goofy.
I’m just saying as a certain music, we are working harder costumewise. I don’t feel like rap should go that far. I enjoy Rakim coming out with a snorkel on with his jewelry on, rapping. That’s a show for me.
Yeah, but would anybody really like Outkast if they didn’t come out and put on a crazy show? I don’t even like them and I know people that probably wouldn’t like them if they didn’t.
I just feel like its just working hard. Like Missy Elliot is just working hard. Too Damn hard. It even goes to the south. They want a lot of groups to look animated.
Like you are going to a carnival.
Yeah like a carnival. They put animation into the rap game. That messed up the genre in general. You don’t have to work that hard. When you look around you, you got a lot of groups that do the same shit. Look at Norah Jones. You don’t see her with no cape on her back. That’s my reason why I pulled off all my Black Elvis shit. I rap good. I rap good anyway. People should enjoy that part of it.
How many videos do you have?
I aint had none in a while.
Exactly, you don’t really need them to sell records to your fans.
That’s what I like. A person that can sell through their voice. Like all those groups from the ‘80s, from that third generation. I remember when I used buy single of certain groups, Kings of Pressure, just by hearing them. Now these groups, you gotta see them 50 times on BET to start liking them, and you still don’t like them. They don’t have a presence, so they feel like TV is the way to escape. They feel like people are so stupid now the if he on cable TV he must be good then. HA HA HA. You’re not good. The record company just put you on TV. You’re not good.
Yeah, like what do you think about American Idol?
I think American Idol sucks. I think Paula Abdul sitting up there with Simon and Randy Jackson. It’s a gimmick show. I think it sucks. It’s Middle America trying to make an act on television. Which is a normal hype in a person’s mind. You blow up an act on a television show for seven months, of course you’re going to get a record deal. What story do you have to go bye. I just seen this guy on TV in this contest for nine months. It’s the same thing with these bullshit rap battles that are coming out on television. I think that is the most bullshitest shit. What kills me, is they will have a rapper judging the rap contest that aint even a good rapper himself. What is that? Guys that can’t even win battle themselves judging the contest. What the fuck are you doing sitting up their judging the contest.
Yeah. They should have you and KRS-1 out there.
I can see me KRS and Rakim, Kool G Rap, Big Daddy Kane, and Grandmaster Caz judging it. How the fuck you gonna have new rappers judging motherfuckers that’s just as new as them?
Yeah. I hear new rappers and it seems like they say the same thing over and over. That’s not rap. It’s like chanting.
You got different genres. Like even Oakland has an underground. The marketing is all covered up. [silence]
So, what can we really expect from you this year?
I got some stuff coming out secretly with people.
So, it’s a secret.
Yeah. I got some stuff coming out with Prodigy. I did like two songs. You know the feed back on the internet…that’s another thing I want to talk about. I think people should accept rap and buy it and go to the store and buy a lot of rap. I think the computer has taken the fun out of the industry.
Well, most rap sucks now though. I haven’t bought a CD since Lost Masters.
Right, but I’m saying. Rap has gotten so jiminy Greek now. America has been so spoiled that they get records every Tuesday. Everybody has a job now to say, I give that album a 4.1, a 3.7. It give different people a job to say things. Its fucking up the industry also.
I read what critics say, and it seems like once they like someone, they stick with them and always say they are good. Like Automator.
Automator has only been good with Dr. Octagon.
Exactly, then I read an article about Lovage and they say its great, but I think its fucking shit.
I think Automator has his own private press, basically. I think Automator took the gas tank from Octagon and ran other places and people opened their arms welcome saying wow, you were the guy that did Octagon. Me and him did Octagon together and he ran with that. A lot of people will take my power and try to use it in a certain way. Same thing with Kurt, I might do a project with him, but people might take it as, wow Kurt did the beats, let me call Kurt to get some tracks. People don’t do their research. I give people their power and they try to run and use the Duracell as long as it last. Ha Ha Ha. People need all your recommendation and they need your juice. Some people feel like if they get Kool Keith to rap on one my beats, that will get be some notoriety. People will say wow Kool Keith rapped on your stuff, I can rap on your shit now. Other producers can see it. It opens up doors for people. It’s a good marketing scam. Its like a wack rapper gets Jay Z to rap on their album and it makes them look like their good, but they suck.
What about El Gant? You were on his album and I thought the rest of his album sucked.
Well, El Gant is pretty good for what he does. He’s not trying to be a pop artist or nothing. He has his own little avenue. I’m saying for other artists who try to use that leverage. Like you might get a guy that tries to get 50 Cent on his album to make it look like he is in that range of 50 Cent, but he is not in that range. People use that. That’s called credibility. They’ll go out and try to get a person and work it.
It works though. People will buy because of 50 Cent, but the album sucks.
Right. It’s a marketing scam. Another thing that playing out is guest stars. Every song has got a guest. If you can’t do a whole album by yourself, you never was an artist. Why did you have a record deal? What was the reason for you even getting signed?
Well, even some older artists. I looked at the new Keith Murray album. I looked at the back of the CD and every song had somebody in it.
Well, not necessarily all the time. With the Keith Murray thing the record company probably got in his business. They do get into your business. Sometime you could have a stupid person around you. Like, I had my dumb ass old manager around telling me fucking, you should get Norah Jones on your album. Assortments of motherfuckers. You can have a manager that is freaked out with name. Name fanatics. How ‘bout we try to get Christina Aguilera to do one of your choruses. You know? It’s a bunch of bullshit. That’s probably why a lot of groups in R&B broke up. It looks good in the beginning. I looked on the cover of Jet and it said B2K broke up. I understood it right away. People probably had to read all that shit. I didn’t even have to read that article. I already knew, young kids signed to a big label, with no experience in the music business. You know, they on BET with AJ and Free. The record company lends you things. Lends you cars, clothes, jewelry. Give you so much stuff, front you so much stuff, advances. A lot of renting, leasing. When the album is finished and they pay for all the stars and production, Babyface and whoever, up the ass. When the royalty comes they aint got no money. What happened was, they thought that shit was free. A lot of these new kids don’t even know the business. They just come, sing, they don’t know nothing. First, some people want the fame. You got a lot of popular motherfuckers that on MTV everyday and all the magazines everyday. Paparazzi everywhere, they at every party with diamonds and custom rings on, but they don’t have a fucking dime. Then the next day their on the phone arguing with Burt Bodell about their check. They can’t get their money, the check is frozen, they didn’t get paid. It’s a big front.
What’s your thought on Jay Z’s retirement?
I don’t think Jay Z retired. I think he got out the business mentally for the people. I think he is in the business, but out the business. I think Jay Z is physically telling the people he went out like Michael Jordan. A guy like him in the industry, they won’t even let you out the business. That’s even publicitywise. Its like the mafia, you can’t get out the business. I think Jay Z is a good rapper. He’s almost as good as me. He’s probably one of the rapper’s almost as good as me, as I named on my chart. I think there is 20 million rappers in the universe. Look at a city in New York. The whole city worships the guy, which is cool. I think there is more rappers that are not good, but there are rappers that are good, just not as good as me. Its like basketball. I’m not gonna watch the phoenix Suns all day. You got the Clippers, the Cavaliers, and the Knicks. It’s like NYC is watching one channel. I am not a good competitor if I watch one guy. The NBA is full of different motherfuckers, that’s why it’s competitive.
So, what’s good?
You can’t just look at one guy, then I won’t be good. When you aren’t around competition, then you can say you’re good by yourself. That’s different. You gotta rhyme with competitive guys to know if you are good. Same with basketball. If gotta play with the best to know if you’re good. In your own mind you think you’re good if you don’t play with the best. Like the Clippers could think they’re good, but they haven’t played the Lakers. The NBA is weird
Who’s you’re pick for the Playoffs today? In the NFL.
Patriots and Eagles. Patriots to win the Super Bowl.
I like the Colts and the Panthers, cause the Patriots are in the same division as the Bills, but the Patriots got the coaching.
Yeah. They got that.
OK. Darrick said something about you being in an Apple commercial.
I didn’t do a commercial. I think they bought the sample from Universal.
What do you think about Eminem and the Source?
Huh?
Benzino released some racist tracks by Eminem
Let’s wait and see what happens.
Eminem said something about the President too, and the secret service got into it or something
That’s weird. I didn’t hear that. You know what else if funny. I was walking downtown in Harlem one day, and they had these African guys selling mixtapes of different guys. Like, the city has a world of its own. New York has a world of its own. They were having all these guys battling, Joe Schmoe vs. Such n Such freestyle. Etc. So, I was like, who knows these people? I think the DJs get a lot of gratitude, but its so local. When you ask people around the world about these tapes, they’d be like I haven’t heard of this shit. You cant relate to the talent. You can easily gain some local notoriety if you are dissing somebody locally. Like, Johnny West got beef with another rapper in Parchester. Its so local. With them mixtape guys, they try to get the artists to sell the mixtapes. The labels take a loss, because you got two guys battling locally, but the rest of the world don’t know about that shit. The record company just built off the hype of how local it was hot. Not nationally hot. I think Kid Capri was the first original guy to do the mixtape thing. Then it became a slew of DJs with no background. A lot of these new DJs they don’t even mix, they just play records on a CD and sell it. How can you say you’re a DJ. Its not a blend. You just added 14 songs exclusively to a tape. You’re not a DJ.
What do you think about DJs like Q-Bert?
Well, he’s a DJ. Actually mixing and going and winning competitions. Scratching. These guys aint winning scratch competitions, traveling to Japan and Tokyo, winning awards. They’ll just put 14 songs of somebody else’s records on a tape.
I could do that.
I could do that. My Grandmother could do that. Let me put a track off this album and a track of that album and call it Volume 1. That aint a fucking mix. You can do that on your home CD player and then scream over the record and call it your album.
What’s up with the Kool Keith Space Tape?
What's the deal with Junkadelic, what's up with those guys?
They dealing with a third party and there’s a bunch of things probably going on that they think they don’t know, but that particular third party in the territories of those albums like the Clayborne Family, that stuff shouldn’t even be out. Me and H wasn’t clarified or notified about any of this stuff.
What about the Lovely Lady 12”?
There re-releasing Lovely Lady, that's from like 96
I heard Kurt was working with those people. I don’t think they are dealing with the real people. They are not calling me an H. Me and H that funded these projects. They need to deal with the real people. I don’t speak with these guys, so I think we should pull the axe on these guys. I think they should just deal with me more personal.
What about Topgame records?
That's Jay Capone.
That’s something different. I have never. That’s something totally different. That’s Jay Capone. I rhymed on one of his songs out in Amsterdam. That’s his own project. I don’t think it has nothing to with me.
If you go to their site, you are listed as one of their artists.
I’ve never even signed a deal with that label. I don’t recall signing to Topgame Records. I remember I went over their and ate some Chinese food. I guess he want to make his website look good. I’m not mad at Jay. I think he’s just trying to do his thing. Jay’s hustling. The music industry is so funny now. Everybody wants to remix stuff. I think the UK is at its all time high in its whole musical differences. They want special mixes, special vocals. They are the only people who want to put your vocals on eight different mixes. They want to do a house mix, a drum and bass mix, a hip hop mix a trip hop mix. They are not satisfied with a classic record of anything, any artist. The worst thing you can do in the UK, is give them your acapellas. That’s the worst thing you can do. People over their don’t respect the artist who did the first record. Like Kames Brown, I’m not gonna remix the Payback album. Its good like it is. It like they are not satisfied. They are over innovative.
What do you think about your Don’t Crush It single? I thought it was fucking bad.
That was another thing that got too innovative. I laughed at it. I thought it was the biggest joke of my life. Switzerland and Australia and these countries just can’t leave a record alone. You can’t leave your acapellas. You know what I started to do now? I started throwing my instrumentals away in the garbage and anything with me rhyming acapella. Even the studio engineer used to say, do you want a TV track? I started saying no and you supposed to have TV track. Breaking the law of music. I don’t even want a TV track no more. I just record all my songs now with no instrumental, no acapella tracks. I just put the song on top of the beat and destroy the masters. Now you literally gotta destroy the masters. When the company wants to do a big record, you gotta pull the record. Literally pull the record, destroy the record yourself. And another thing they like to do, when you go do a song for a certain artist. People will get you to do a song. Then they try to get you to do a chorus. I be like, you paid me to do a 16. Can you come up with a chorus, can you say something on our intro. They try to get three for one. Like I try to get you to come over to fix my sink , but can you fix my window and another spot in the dinning room. It kind of makes you think twice about recording with people. About doing a collaboration.
What do you think about Groove Terminator?
That was funny. I seen that video with a midget running around. Was that a remix?
It was almost like Plastic World.
I seen it on TV when I was in Australia. I think people love my voice so much. I think a lot of people can’t get in touch with me to rhyme on their tracks. In this whole universe there is so much corny stuff. A lot of people aint that funky. So they feel like, If I get Kool Keith on this record it would get me recommendation that this record is actually funky. But, I think a lot of stuff in general, people know in their hearts that I wouldn’t rhyme on it with a fucking blindfold. So they feel like fuck it, we gotta take his vocal. We didn’t have the guts to ask him to do, we gonna take his vocals and put him on these tracks.
Unlike, guys like Prodigy?
Right. I want to rhyme on their music. Like the critics will criticize them. Then they go listen to something on Mo wax and love that, but not like something I rapped on and like myself. They go listen to something that was artificially taken and people would swear I rhymed on that shit. It kinda will shock you sometimes when you walk into some store and you hear your vocals. I remember I walked into Miller’s Outpost to get some jeans and I heard my voice on some shit I never rapped on in my life. And as a rapper, I don’t care if you rapped on 8 million beats, you know what you rapped on. I was on some shit I never heard. That’s weird. I walked in the store and was like, did I rap on this?
I probably got some shit you never heard. You’d probably be like, what the fuck is this?
I never rapped on a lot of shit.
What happened with Octagon 2?
Octagon 2, the reason it didn’t come out, was I did the record my original way. The label CMH was trying to be too critical instead of putting the record out. I think they wanted to get Australian remixers and stuff like that. Once again, we have different aliens messing with records again. A lot of these guys feel they can get production credibility just to force collab with me. I call that force collab. When people want to get their name on something. When they want to get the world to think we were in the studio together. We was not in the studio together. That’s what I hate. You got phony collabs and real collabs. Nowadays you gotta actually send pictures into magazines with the actual collab. If you don’t, you got people thinking did you actually work with that guy. You know what they are doing? They are emailing vocals to each other. That took the fun out of music. People are actually doing albums through the computer, but when they put it out on a label it looks like they worked together. A lot of these groups are doing that. As a musician, I don’t like it myself. I like to be there with the artist. How the fuck you gonna work with somebody you can’t see? I have artists I want to work with, like Roger Troutman. I didn’t mail hi my fucking vocal and all this shit. I think that takes the creativity out of the music. [silence]
How do you feel about how the White label album?
It's good. I like it.
So, have you ever seen the site?
Yeah. All the time. You should have those guys send in Matchbox Cars. I lost my Matchbox cars. None of that plastic shit though. Only metal bottoms. No 2002 2003 cars wither. You up in Boston though right?
Buffalo. Do you remember the Buffalo concert, where somebody threw a porno mag up on stage? That was my friend.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I remember that. [conversation]
Alright…later.
Peace.
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